An Interesting Bit of Numbers

"Kailand09" (kailand09)
09/19/2013 at 20:05 • Filed to: None

OK so you all probably have read I'm not a huge fan of the toyobaru twins, and I'm putting that bias out first. But I just thought up an interesting comparo. This isn't meant to be a comment on good or bad, just two cars I thought you all love side by side.

The RSX type S and the Toyobaru twins are quite a bit more similar than I had ever really pondered previously. From the numbers standpoint, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! lists the BRZ at 200hp and 151lb*ft of torque. Their 0-60 time was 7.3s, and the 1/4 sprint done in 15.3(s) at 92.1mph. Curb weight is 2.734lbs. The skid pad yielded .92g.

Now the RSX type S . !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! lists power at 210hp, and torque at 143lb*ft. The type S got to 60 in 6.2(s) an did the 1/4 in 14.9(s) at 95mph. Curb weight is 2848lbs, and it went around the skid pad with .86g.

Really interesting, it's almost like the type S is the FWD version of the Toyobaru twins. Why don't we hear more praise about the type S, other than the fact that is is quite a bit older?

I will say this: having spent time in the type S I can tell you it is a blast and definitely handles pretty well. The power is fun when "v-tec kicks in yo". While underpowered for a track day, the type S is a really fun DD and would still be fairly capable at the autocrosses.

Anyway, those are my automotive thoughts for the night. I don't usually write big long posts, but I had fun comparing the two so I thought I'd share.

DISCUSSION (42)

feather-throttle-not-hair > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:09

Yeah, but the entire point of toyobaru is rwd. The Rsx, gen 1 and 2 DSM, celica gt-s and the integra all had similar performance and all were great to drive. But nobody did it in rwd before. The most powerful 240sx had 155 hp.

This is not to take anything away from those other cars

Tom McParland > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:11

I remember test driving the RSX-S when it first came out, I was going to trade my '95 Prelude for one. I loved the shifter and the car felt really well balanced. They were great DDs. I ended up getting a Mini Cooper S because I liked the style better and the handling in that thing was insane for its price.

Kailand09 > feather-throttle-not-hair
09/19/2013 at 20:11

Yeah, that's why I said FWD version. RWD is a huge aspect of the Toyobaru, I just had never realized how similar the two cars seemed before.

Kailand09 > Tom McParland
09/19/2013 at 20:13

hah, yeah I've heard good things about the cooper S. Definitely would have been a tough choice against the type S, but both are pretty cool. Do you remember the price difference from when you were looking? Just curious.

Either way, congrats on a fun car! I can't wait to get something fun myself.

Saracen > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:15

I'm sure it's fun on a track, but you won't be experience low speed powersliding shenanigans like with the Toyobaru Twins.

Tom McParland > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:16

Oh I don't have it anymore. That was back in '04. As far as price, I remember the RSX-S was somewhere under 24k and the Cooper S was 23,500. Sadly the Cooper got totaled in a flood 3 years later. :( But the good news is another owner bought from the insurance with a salvage title, stripped it out and made it a track day car. :)

feather-throttle-not-hair > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:19

Gotcha. Yeah I think the 90's and early 2000s were the golden age of fwd sporty coupes. I'm normally a rwd snob but I'd kill for an integra type r. And I'd drive an Rsx-S or a celica gts despite a distinct lack of LSD on either.

Kailand09 > Tom McParland
09/19/2013 at 20:26

Ouch, sorry to hear that, but glad it lives on!

I'm surprised they were so similar in price, but it makes sense. What do you drive now if you don't mind my asking?

Kailand09 > feather-throttle-not-hair
09/19/2013 at 20:30

Yeah, unfortunate they were all FWD. A lot of my friends lusted for the integra type r's, and I can even remember back in the earlier 90's for some reason we were all obsessed with the eclipse (ya ya). The 3000GT was a cool car too.

Kailand09 > Saracen
09/19/2013 at 20:30

haha yeah, that whole FWD thing is a bit of a damper on that.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:33

http://www.scion.com/buy/compare/#c…

I know these cars aren't really supposed to be compared, but it does make you wonder if the FRS is overpriced/hyped.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:37

Poor 3000gt. It was a good car. Unfortunately the rx7 the supra and the 300zx were contemporary and better.

Also I had friends with second gen eclipses (both friends who had them had the awd versions) they were great to drive! But also terrible to keep running...

I had an 88 celica all trac at the time and driving them back to back was really interesting. As different as two cars could be, while being roughly the same size and wight, having the same drivetrain configuration and making close to the same horsepower.

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:40

I have an RSX-S. FWD, soft engine mounts, long gearing, open diff ... that's nice for commuting, but they really dumbed it down for the US market.

Kailand09 > feather-throttle-not-hair
09/19/2013 at 20:42

to us, the supra was almost legend. Definitely unfortunate about the 3000GT, I should try looking up how much one costs as a whip around F* off car. lol.

Kailand09 > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos
09/19/2013 at 20:44

wow, never realized how shitty the back seats were on the FR-S haha. It doesn't even look like seats. I also agree with you completely, but really don't want to continue down the road of toyobaru questioning here hah.

Kailand09 > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire
09/19/2013 at 20:44

This is true, but it really is a pretty fun DD.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 20:51

The BRZ zero to 60 time is for the auto, the manuals is substantial better at 6.2s(motortrend and motorweek tested). While both are great cars, FWD is definitely a limiting factor.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 21:04

I think they're pretty cheap, like not much more than 5k for a runner. But beware the non turbos, I'm pretty sure there's a 170ish hp fwd version out there. There were many drivetrain options especially if you include the dodge stealth, which I think had an even crappier base model.

Kailand09 > feather-throttle-not-hair
09/19/2013 at 21:12

Yeah, I won't be in the position to buy one for a long time. Just a little bit of a daydream really haha.

I believe you're right though, there were some shitty base models on those cars.

Kailand09 > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/19/2013 at 21:13

Good point, I forgot about that.

Definitely FWD is a bummer, but still thought the comparison is a fairly productive one to make.

The Jevans > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 21:16

I did 14.9 1/4 in my stock fr-s

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 21:18

True, it's not bad. I just wanted to say that the numbers don't tell the whole story, especially regarding driving feel.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 21:18

Well having owned an awd turbocharged car, believe me, the purchase cost is just the tip of the iceberg.

Actually to be honest, real world, I'd take an Rsx-s over a tt 3000gt if we're talking only car. But if it's just a daydream...why not supra? heheh.

Kailand09 > The Jevans
09/19/2013 at 21:19

Nice, yeah there will be a lot of difference in specs based on track conditions etc etc you know the drill.

Just a simple easy to pluck number from a somewhat reputable source. That makes the whole thing actually a bit stronger, as they are such similar performing cars despite the lacking RWD on the RSX.

Kailand09 > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire
09/19/2013 at 21:20

Oh definitely. I was simply looking at the numbers and hadn't ever realized how close the two were.

Kailand09 > feather-throttle-not-hair
09/19/2013 at 21:21

HAHA yeah, true that. The supra legend man. I would also take the RSX-S over the 3k. I just always looked up to the 3k as a guy down the block had one when I was younger so I got to see it often.

Plus it was red, all awesome cars are red.

The Jevans > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 21:30

yeah it does. The fastest stock time I've seen for the FR-S is 14.7. I did mine with 10 month old tires, so I think the 15.3 is a little off, but as others have said, that may also be for the automatic. As far as straight-line speed is concerned, they are close, but the twins excel in fun and fun.

Kailand09 > The Jevans
09/19/2013 at 21:31

Haha yeah. I do admit I have not ridden one, only watched them out at the autox. I'd like a ride in a twin, but it's not too often I get rides in cool cars.

Tom McParland > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 21:46

After the Cooper I picked up an '05 Legacy GT wagon 5-speed that I loved until it gave me trans problems, I traded that for my current ride a '10 Mazda 3s 6-speed. Which I would say has a character somewhere between my 95 Prelude and the 04 Cooper.

Kailand09 > Tom McParland
09/19/2013 at 21:51

Hm, yeah I really like the speed3. I've been contemplating if that will be my compromise DD after I graduate. That's my constant internal debate, what to get when I graduate that is fun while practical yet cheap. Extraordinarily difficult to choose.

Tom McParland > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 22:02

The Speed3 is a good car I would have got one but I needed to get rid of my Subie ASAP and the local Mazda dealer only had one stick on the lot. They offered me a grand over KBB for my Legacy and I said ",give me the black one!' And bolted out of there before they realized how much of a money pit my Subie was. :)

Kailand09 > Tom McParland
09/19/2013 at 22:17

oh yours is not a speed? I thought that the "Mazda 3s" meant speed3 haha. Yeah, I just read some reviews and some say the '10 speed3 has too much torque steer and this and that, saying a WRX is a better car. IDK hah

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 22:18

The Miata is the answer so why bother with anything else?

Kinja'd!!!

Kailand09 > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
09/19/2013 at 22:19

Lol. no back seats man.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 22:20

Why do u need back seats?

Tom McParland > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 22:21

No they make i trim with the slow-poke motor, S trim with the 2.5 mill and Speed with the turbo

Kailand09 > Tom McParland
09/19/2013 at 22:23

good point. Either way, if you enjoy the s, I'm sure the speed3 should be a great car.

Kailand09 > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
09/19/2013 at 22:23

So I can put my douchebag friends in the back

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Kailand09
09/19/2013 at 22:27

Thats why i have a miata. Only one friend can ask for a ride!

Kailand09 > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time
09/19/2013 at 22:28

hahaha point taken.

PG; the scalpel wielder > Kailand09
09/20/2013 at 02:08

I daily drive and occasionally track my dc5 (integra here in aus), with a few mods, mainly focused around brakes, exhaust and suspension.

Also driven a few of the toyobaru twins, and although they are fun, this always manages to put a bigger smile on my face. There is something about vtec which is just damn fun

Kinja'd!!!

Kailand09 > PG; the scalpel wielder
09/20/2013 at 07:54

sweet ride man. I like the look too, simple changes to stock but tasteful. That vtec, despite the bad wrap it gets, it is awesome.